Water Additions
I am just starting to get into water additions, my beers have been improving but I have been asking other brewers who have been kind enough to give me beers, how do you get that smoothness, how do you get the body.... and they all mention there is not one trick , pass me recipes similar to mine BUT they do water additions..
So lets start a thread based on what needs to be done by style etc etc...
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Chris on
-
I have been looking into this too, getting water reports for my water supply looking into RO then adding stuff.
It is a whole book in itself to do water chemistry this is probably the most succinct water treatment guide i have found
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198...
-
-
just found good example of generic water chemistry for locations from around the world
has chch auck etc.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/water-profiles/
Then you can use BS to calculate what you need to add to get what you want. :)
There are guides on how the additions change the flavor profile.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/03/14/all-grain-water-chemistry-b...
-
Permalink Reply by Peter Smith on
-
-
good spreadsheet for water calcs found here http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/ sheet attached to this post
- Attachments:
-
Permalink Reply by Sam DT on
-
Great idea for a thread - would be great to possibly start up a spread sheet of standard additions for different areas in NZ for people started - despite having studied chemistry for a short while I definitely found this the hardest thing to get my head around. I did a quite a bit of reading up front so here's a general brain dump of what I learnt - hopefully helpful - feel free to correct where ever I've gone astray...
Link for Christchurch here: http://www.ccc.govt.nz/homeliving/watersupply/ourwater/chemicalanal...
One thing I initially found confusing was converting to ppm but it turns out that ppm and mg/L are basically equivalent (at least on a mass basis)
I also use the ez water calculator - I tried a few others but ez definitely seems the best.
I use a standard salts addition for every brew and then tweak my acid malt depending on the grains. In Christchurch we have residual alkalinity so I use salts which lower the pH.
My standard addition for a 23L Batch BIAB using 33L of Christchurch water:
4.5 g Epsom Salts (MgSO4)
4 g Calcium Sulfate (CaSO4)
6.8 g Calcium Chloride (CaCl2)
I based the above around calculations in ez and from John Palmers page here: Basically I've aimed to keep minerals in the mid range while using reasonably standard amounts (according to JP the amounts above should have kept me to 1, 1, 2 in terms of teaspoons although when weighing on my hop scale they came out as much less volumetrically.
I'm looking at putting down some pilsners soon - general consensus here seems to be to limit sulfates (if not all salts as Pilsen water is very soft) in order to mellow the bitterness of your hops so you don't overpower the malts. I'm currently looking at:
3.4 g Calcium Chloride (CaCl2)
3 g Epsom Salts (MgSO4)
On the pH front I generally use between 100g and 200g of acid malt per batch depending on grains. One thing i found confusing was whether I should be targeting 5.4 ish as ez suggests or 5.2 as is often mentioned on forums. The difference here comes about as pH drops as temperature increases so 5.4 calculated in ez (which assumes room temp) ends up being 5.2 in your mash (mid 60s). As a rule pH should always be quoted at room temperature - the confusion arises because the pH at which enzymes are most active is quoted at their activity temperature rather than room temperature as they're only active at higher temps. I generally target the low end of the acidity range and from what I've read people often go as low as 5.2 - 5.3 (room temp) or 5 - 5.1 (mash temp), if you're brewing darker / malt driven beers then I assume you'd go higher.
Water volumes - This is probably getting over the top and seeing I use straight BIAB (no sparge) for all but my biggest batches isn't usually an issue... From what I've read t seems you want to balance your salts at close to full volume where as you want to balance pH at close to your mash volume. Again this is basically the same for BIAB but I would assume if you're using a 3 vessel system you might want to calculate separately.
-
-
Thanks great post, would it be possible for you to upload a fully worked spreadsheet from a past batch?
-
-
Here's my one for the Epic PA Clone targeting 45L into fermemeter, 66L of water to mash.
I used brewtoad to convert from EBC to L for the crystal malts and set the Carapils addition as a base malt as the EBC is similar to a base malt. I had intended on adding 300g of acid malt but only had 250g, - I like a bit of acidity, the best beer I've made so far was a Citra IPA which I put in 200g for a 23L batch but that may have more to do with the truckload of hops...
Also it seems to be better to be a bit low than a bit high - as above I've seen mention of a few pro brewers going quite low and apart form ensuring a good mash it prevents tannin extraction and provides better longterm beer stability (apparently). You don't want to go overboard tho as from what I've read your mash efficiency will drop off quite markedly below pH 5 at mash temps (5.2 at room temp). Along these lines I think this is why some people add a little acid to their sparge water - to avoid extracting tannin & to keep the final pH lower.
Anyway I aimed for the bottom end of the balanced chloride sulfate ratio to accentuate the hops but not go overboard. The rest I aimed for mid range except sodium as it wasn't in the additions I was making and didn't seem to matter too much.
- Attachments:
-
-
EZ_Epic PA Clone.xls, 86 KB
-
-
-
One thing I did read which made me wonder, is that when you add the grain to your mash it changes the pH.
It is this pH that you have to worry about not the original water. But I have never had a pH meter so I have never checked. have you checked the difference?
-
-
Been recommended this by WGTN brewers
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Digital-Waterproof-pH-Meter...
may bring a few in
-
Permalink Reply by Matt Poff on
-
Looked at aliexpress options but decided to go with the Hanna kit recommended on the Electric Brewery blog. Quite a bit more expensive but I figured if I'm buying a precision instrument its false economy to buy a potentially imprecise one (just couldn't find any hard data on the accuracy of any aliexpress models). If you go the Hanna route I'd suggest buying through the States via a reshipper - they sell them here but they're significantly more expensive (particularly the replacement electrodes which should last about 2-3 years+ on a brew per month schedule).
One of the US forums, homebrewtalk I think, quoted this list of recommended specs for a pH meter from Palmer's book:
- +/- 0.02 pH accuracy
- ATC (Auto Temperature Control)
- Two-point calibration
- Sealed or refillable electrode with a resolution of +/- 0.02 pH or smaller
- Double junction electrode (or junction design suited for brewing)
- Flushable junctions, which allows for easier cleaning and longer life
- Stable electrode - readings don’t wander.
- Isoelectric pH within 1/2 pH unit of pH 7. ('nice to have’ as you can correct readings from meters that have isoelectric pH that doesn't meet this spec)
- Long electrode life. A good electrode will last for 3 or more years.
I guess the Chinese ones could be accurate but with a short reliable life on a non-replaceable electrode? Hard to know without some independent test data.
I considered the paper strips for starters but they seemed like false economy considering I might want to perform several tests throughout the brew schedule, also the colour grading in the 5-6 range seems to be very subtle so readings are fairly coarse, they take a relatively long time to return a result and they're not temp compensated.
-
Permalink Reply by Jamie McQuillan on
-
Nice one.
Here is another post on choosing a pH meter that might help.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/buying-guide-ph-meter-127062/
-
-
I don't have a pH meter (yet) but yes the addition of grains definitely impacts the pH of the mash its self. I've read a bit about people looking to change the pH of their boil as well but that's crossing the way too much effort bridge for me.
So you want to be measuring the pH of a cooled sample of wort I think about 10 minutes in to mash (once everything's had a bit of a chance to combine) to figure out your mash pH. Ideally you'd add your additions right at the start of the mash - I usually add salts as I'm filling my pot with mash water and add acid malt with the rest of my grains.
Basically the darker the grains the more acidic they are and the more they drop the pH hence traditionally darker beers are brewed in areas with alkaline water supplies. That said (if my water report is correct) Chch water is so alkaline that I still add acid malt when mashing stouts.
I've read some people get quite different results with their pH meters from what they've estimated so again in my case I've aimed low to keep safe. I'm not sure what other cities are like but Christchurch has a range of wells which probably produce slightly different profiles so the only way to really know is biting the bullet and getting a meter...
The one Peter has above looks good & auto temperature correction would be handy in not having to wait for a sample to cool to 20 deg. I've read a lot of people try and measure pH with strips straight from their mash - which owing to the temperature and rapid cooling could give widely varying results. If you don't have automatic temperature correction I guess you either have to wait to hit 20 deg or take a stab at correction yourself...
Help Fund This Site
FRESH LIQUID YEAST!!!
DIRECT FROM THE LAB
Luke's Beer+
Events
© 2024 Created by nzbrewer.
Powered by
