Radler - the story unfolds
This is quite amazing. See attached file (you may need to download it and open it with Adobe Reader)
The sooner this lunacy is challenged and defeated the better!
The sooner this lunacy is challenged and defeated the better!
- Attachments:
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Radler trade mark.pdf, 79 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tony on
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Here is some interesting reading:
Dear Clare
you haven't addressed any of my points. You haven't trade marked 'Monteith's Radler', you have trade marked the style Radler which is a beer style, not a name or brand. If you were interested in competition you wouldn't have trade marked a style name. Both companies haven't moved on, you have simply bludgeoned a small competitor into submission, that’s not fair competition, is it?
Would you like to address my questions again? And, I would like to see telecom pursue their trade mark, yellow, in court. I also see, that there are several supermarkets stocking other Radler products, next to yours, are you going to pursue them as well, or is that against your competitive ethics? We appreciate that your drink is a refreshing, citrusy lager and it should stand on it's own merits next to others. Just like ale, draught, pilsner. Why don't you trade mark them too?
As before, I look forward to your intelligent reply.
Yours sincerely
Tony Culmer
From: Clare Morgan
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 9:24 AM
To: tonyculmer@xtra.co.nz
Subject: FW: Radler
Dear Tony
Thank you for your email and my apologies for the delay in responding to you. I was away last week and have just returned to the office.
Recent media coverage of Monteith’s Radler has drawn some interesting and passionate comments from beer enthusiasts such as yourself and fans of our brand.
It’s great to see people are as enthusiastic about great beer as we are including Monteith’s Radler which we have been producing now for eight years.
As you’re aware we trademarked our hugely popular brand variant six years ago in recognition of the investment we have made in developing Monteith’s Radler among the New Zealand market.
Monteith’s Radler is now recognized by Kiwi consumers for what we hoped it would be – a refreshingly fruity lager with citrus infusion.
While we’re aware other versions of the term ‘Radler’ are used in Europe, Monteith’s has established the brand name ‘Monteith’s Radler’ in New Zealand.
You ask about whether you feel we should be able to trademark a term just because it is not well known in New Zealand? Our thinking is that yes, we should be able to do so and for that very reason – it is not well known. Interesting Telecom successfully trademarked the word ‘Yellow’ – a colour every New Zealander is aware of.
When it was brought to our attention that another brewer was producing a product with our trademarked name we were naturally concerned.
Competition is healthy and we welcome new products from other brewers but like any successful business, we simply wanted to protect our trademark, brand and our investment and that is exactly what we have done.
This matter was resolved three months ago and both parties have moved on.
I appreciate the fact you have taken the time to contact me and I hope that this letter goes someway to answering the questions you raised.
Best wishes
Clare Morgan
GM Marketing
HAYLEY KEARNS ║PA MARKETING – DB BREWERIES ║PH: +64 9 259 3318 ║ FAX: +64 9 259 3015 ║EMAIL: hayley.kearns@db.co.nz
From: Tony Culmer [mailto:tonyculmer@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 16 April 2009 8:38 a.m.
To: Clare Morgan
Subject: Radler
Dear Clare
I am Tony Culmer and a member of SOBA
following a quote of you in the Marlborough Express, I felt compelled to write you. I just wanted to ask you a to clarify a few things for me, if you could?
What gives db the right to trade mark a style?
does the fact that a large proportion of the public, not knowing that style, justify you trade marking it?
if a large proportion of the public don't know what the style is, why does db bother about it?
if db are in fact not bothered about, then why put your lawyers on to Green man brewery, for brewing, what is arguably a truer to style Radler?
do you realise that db and by association IPONZ, are becoming a joke as a result of this, both here and overseas? (I presume you have been keeping abreast of the press)
Why don't you just do the right thing and drop the trade mark, or at the very least, not bother about protecting it. Please find attached a letter that has been forwarded to a few interested parties. The negative press and fall out from this, is going to hurt db, more than the trade mark is worth, which will be eventually overturned, because it is quite simply not defendable.
I look forward to your intelligent and expedient reply.
Yours sincerely
Tony Culmer
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Permalink Reply by Barry on
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Dear Clare,
firstly, I am exceedingly unenthusiastic about Monteiths and indeed any beer produced by Dominion Breweries. You are a scourge on brewing and I wish you would stop and leave it to people who don't place brands, marketing and net profit over flavour, diversity and consumer choice. If you are under the impression that I am enthusiastic about Monteiths or 'Monteiths Radler' because I feel it necessary to voice my opinion on this subject you may stand corrected - I am not. I couldn't be any less enthusiastic. Not enthusiastic. Not one itty bitty little bit.
Your email reeks of arrogance. I've no doubt you and your entire sad little marketing team are exceedingly arrogant about how you've been able to spend squillions of dollars on fooling people into thinking the Monteiths brand stands for something. It probably used to. It no longer does and hasn't for some time.
Monteiths, in fact the entire DB portfolio is no more than bland watery lager of a couple of sweet and possibly not so sweet variants. You can trumpet all of your numerous competitive successes, sale figures, whatever you like. We appreciate real beer. We know the truth. You can fool others with branding and gimmicks. YOU CAN'T FOOL US. We've educated ourselves - no thanks to your bullying tactics and market domination - our palettes are what we trust.
What we would like you to do, to go some way to regaining our trust, is start "investing" in taste - flavour. Hops. Malt. An abundance of all those things that we know make a real beer.
Stop lying to the general public. They don't know any better - shame on you!
Don't forget the marketing. You don't have to forget the "brand". Just make them stand for something real. Make flavoursome, diverse, wonderful beer. Use your impressive success and market share for the good of beer and the craft of brewing. Heck why not become the first massive brewing company to throw out the bean counters and concentrate solely on the product? Got the stones? Probably not, but I just thought I'd ask.
Yours sincerely,
Unenthusiastic Barry©®™
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Permalink Reply by Phil Murray on
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FYI, Telecom (or rather YPG IP Limited) haven't trademarked the term 'Yellow', rather the device (ie their logo) which happens to contain the word Yellow. At least, as I as I could find in the IPONZ database...
I remember them trying to trademark it years ago, and recall them failing.
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There's that, and the fact that Telecom sold the Yellow Pages™ - so any IP around the colour yellow may or may not have passed on to the new owners. Not sure if the sale makes the trademark legally void?
In any case, it's nigh on impossible to trademark a colour. I'll need some proof that they were even successful to start with.
Nice try though DB, use someone else's frivolous application of trademark law to validate your own shoddy practices.
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They would've sold the trademark(s) as part of the purchase price as an asset. The trademarks remain valid.
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Permalink Reply by Stu McKinlay on
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Trademarks and marketing fluff, or use of them, are often sold with a lifespan. for example ANZ are only able to use the black horse branding of National for a few years (black horse still used by the former owners at the time of sale - was it lloyds?).
In the yellow pages situation I see no future use for Telecom, so they probably just sold it all off...
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I think I touched a nerve?
Dear Tony
Please excuse the briefness of this response but as I have already mentioned, we consider this matter resolved.
We are now focused on other priorities namely making great beer for our consumers and growing our brands.
Thank you again for your enthusiasm and interest in Monteith’s Radler.
Yours sincerely
Clare Morgan
GM Marketing
From: Tony Culmer [mailto:tonyculmer@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 7:45 PM
To: Clare Morgan
Subject: Re: Radler
Dear Clare
you haven't addressed any of my points. You haven't trade marked 'Monteith's Radler', you have trade marked the style Radler which is a beer style, not a name or brand. If you were interested in competition you wouldn't have trade marked a style name. Both companies haven't moved on, you have simply bludgeoned a small competitor into submission, that’s not fair competition, is it?
Would you like to address my questions again? And, I would like to see telecom pursue their trade mark, yellow, in court. I also see, that there are several supermarkets stocking other Radler products, next to yours, are you going to pursue them as well, or is that against your competitive ethics? We appreciate that your drink is a refreshing, citrusy lager and it should stand on it's own merits next to others. Just like ale, draught, pilsner. Why don't you trade mark them too?
As before, I look forward to your intelligent reply.
Yours sincerely
Tony Culmer
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"We are now focused on other priorities namely making great beer for our consumers and growing our brands."
WOOHOO - fantastic news lads. They are obviously going to halt production forthwith, scrap their entire existing range, and start brewing decent beer!
WIN!
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Permalink Reply by James P on
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I have to admit without DB and LION there would a few businesses who may not have a market.
I do have an issue with Clare saying they are growing the brand "Montheith's Radler" as if they are one and the same....
Now I only completed a couple years of marketing papers, however I would have thought Monteith's is your brand similar to Homebrand, Pams or Budget. The product is beer, like cleaning liquid. And the style is "Radler" similar in this case to the style of cleaning liquid such as a toilet cleaner, which is what DB has made of the Radler style....
DB, protect your brand by trademarking "Monteith's Radler" if you need to however please don't bastardise a style just because you can't brew it properly! Taking Monteith's Golden and adding Lime is not the way to do it!
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Permalink Reply by Greig McGill on
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Call me dumb, but I don't see any legitimate reason why they'd need these trademarks at all. Why would anyone? Not many micros bother with this, and how many issues do they have? All of this "common business practice" seems to be based on "they did it, so we will also" rather than because it actually does anything useful.
Can somebody explain to me why you'd bother trademarking the name of your beer, instead of just focussing on making GOOD beer?
If anyone from DB reads this forum, just talk to us. I don't want you to go out of business. I doubt that would happen whether I wanted it to or not! I just want you to be honest. I want to understand you. Do you *honestly* think you make good beer by any objective standard? Are your heads that far in the clouds? TALK to us like human beings. Don't spout PR bullshit and the company line. Stop pretending you don't know you're acting like assholes here. We're human, and I'm sure at least some of you are also.
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I really want to know why they have approached Beerstore and Green Man but have not approached the hundreds* of bottle stores and supermarkets still selling Green Man Radler?
* an estimate, based on at least 5 that I could name still selling it last week.
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