Eliminating fusel alc smell/ taste in lagers
I mainly brew Pilsners and have been very happy with them. I typically use White Labs czech budejuvice yeast , 2L starter and 90-95% gladfields pils (21L batch).
This summer has been quite hot and so have had a few issues during brewing that I think have led to a slight fusel taste in the beer, namely:
- cold water temp from tap around 18deg so can only cool brew to about 19deg using immersion chiller, so have pitched yeast at about 18 deg then put in temp controlled fridge to cool.
- Fridge has struggled to get brew down from 19 deg to 12 deg in less than 12 hours
Was wondering weather Id be risking it if I cooled the brew down in fridge for say 8hours to 14 deg before pitching yeast? Can I aerate the wort first, cool in fridge and add yeast once down to temp?
A couple of other things that I wondered about?
- Should I keep my yeast starters at 12 deg? I typically do at room temp but house has been hot?
- I bottle rather than keg so would the small amount of fermentation that occurs with the remaining yeast and priming sugar (when bottles stored at room temp) be enough to add fusels??
Any sage advise appreciated. Cheers
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Peter Smith on
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yeast starters dont need to be at the same temp as fermentation you can run them hotter BUT to no stress yeast they should be same temp as you pitch the slurry. I often sit my starters in same fridge and don't pitch until i get the wort down to 10C, having best results with wyeast 2124, throws a lot of sulphur as ferments but cleans up really well. Have not bottled yet, just kegs.
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Permalink Reply by Grant R Baker on
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Let it chill before pitching and leave the starter with the wort in the fridge. Oxygenate just prior to pitching, depnding on your method - this gives the yeast the best chance to killing anything else that got in there.
Diaectyl rest the beer end of Primary / start of Secondary before starting the lagering drop.... but make sure the primary fermenation has completed.
On bottling - nah, I haven't had that problem in the past.
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Permalink Reply by Barry on
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Do fusel alcohols smell?
My advice would be to give someone else a try of your beer to see if they can also identify hot/fusel alcohols. Enter it in a competition or two to get some judging notes.
Seems to me that within the first 12 hours of a lager there won't be a lot of alcohol created, and 18° isn't that warm. I'm not sure lager yeasts have a lower ~temp at which fusels are created~ corresponding with their lower ideal fermentation temp. A quick google tells me they have less propensity to create fusels.
How much hot/cold break ends up in your fermenter? And how much yeast are you pitching, according to Palmer over-pitching can lead to fusels.
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I followed exactly the same process with two different lager yeasts and got widely different results. I am a big believer in 2124 now
From old posts JoKing
I'd tend to agree here - and after reading your thread, I think you might still need a little bit of closure.
s-23 is crap. It makes beer - but thats about it. I would do this recipe again with a single infusion at 65 degrees and use some bohemian pilsner yeast from your friendly LHBS
Remember that pitching the correct amount of yeast is so important with Pilsners so check out the Mr Malty website, and make a suitable size starter that suits your system. Things that make life easy in this department are things like Coopers Lager kits and 10L Jerry Cans - especially if you dont have a stirplate.
I can say that WyEast 2124 is one of the most reliable Lager strains you can get your mits on. It doesn't alter your hop profile too much, and the attenuative properties leave the beer with some great malt flavours.
Don't let shit yeast strains put you off brewing great beers.
If you dont have any Amarillo left over, I might be able to spare a wee bit from my nuclear bunker full of hops.Following this I made an 8L 2124 starter for the first gen.....
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Permalink Reply by Dan on
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Thanks for responses. I might try cooling the starter and wort down to 10-12 deg before pitching starter and see how we go.
To answer your question Barry, I try to keep most of the break out of the fermenter, leave it all in the boil pot. I make a 2L starter with 1 x vile of yeast or 2-3 viles of recycled slurry.This makes about 200Billion cells(according to beer smith) for a 21L batch 1.050 OG, lager so I dont think Im over pitching.
Will take your advice and see if others can pick the taste. Cheers
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Yeah sounds like your process is exemplary. I'd definitely get a second opinion.
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Yeh pitch as cold as you can and remember that you need to pitch twice as much yeast for lagers as you do for ales (make sure you select lager in the drop down in the yeast starter tool). Make sure you use the freshest liquid yeast you can get too.
So for 21L of 1.050 lager you need around 380 billion cells, so using a 75% viable liquid yeast pack you would need to make a starter around 8-10L (depending on how you aerate) or a 4L one with a stir plate. Or do a 2 stage starter if you want to do smaller ones. In my experience it's quite tricky to get a lot of growth from the vials so I'd err on the side of bigger starters, really hard to overpitch lagers.
Good luck :)
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