First Saison, first liquid yeast, whole lotta firsts...
So with summer around the corner and a desire to have a crack at something a little different to the US-style pale/amber ales I've brewed too many of in the past year, I'm thinking about brewing my first Saison. It's not a style of beer I have consumed a lot of, but the ones I have tried I've really enjoyed, especially the more moden hoppy types (8wired Saison Sauvin, Nøgne Ø India Saison). I've got a bag of Citra hops sitting in the freezer begging to be used, and after a little googling it seems like a 'Citra Saison' could be a worth-while endeavour. I've been using a bastardised BIAB method to brew ~12L all-grain batches (partly restricted by the size of my pot, partly by my desire to experiment without having to drink 20L of beer for each experiment), and would like to continue to do so as the results have generally been far better than anything I brewed with extract.
The first "first" I've stumbled onto for this beer is the yeast. In the past I've stuck with US05 and SO4 for simplicity's sake, but this time it looks like have to splash out on a liquid like Wyeast Belgian or French Saison. I've been reading up on their website and it ssays their packs are good for 19L of wort up to 1.060 OG. I was going to keep this one under 7% ABV but it seems like with a single pack in 12L I'll be over-pitching, or if I split a pack between two batches I'll likely be under-pitching. $20 of yeast for 12L of beer is starting to make it a bit pricey, which isn't too big a concern but if I can get better bang-for-buck then that would be good. Could I get away with splitting the pack between 24L of wort ~1.060, or should I try make a starter (another first) and increase the cell count?
The other "first" is the recipe itself. I fell like I'm starting to get a bit of an idea of what I'm looking at with a recipe for an IPA, but when it comes to Saison I'm a bit lost. I quite like the look of this recipe, probably more for the colour than anything, but I'm wondering if it could do with dry hopping too?
http://microbebrewer.blogspot.co.nz/2013/07/citra-saison.html
I'm thinking it would be best to keep the malt bill fairly simple and let the yeast/hops do the talking? And French or Belgian yeast? Any suggestions/guidance/help would be greatly appreciated!
*edit* also found this recipe that I quite like the look of, perhaps without the 'extra bits'; http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/citra-saison-5gal
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Grant R Baker on
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Wow a IPA Saison if ever I saw it.
Saisons were originally 3-4% beers... often these days the push up to 5.5%... but the are meant to be a real session beer. Bittering is also low to moderate... but it is personal taste for a homebrew.
Citra sounds great... I can recommend the French Saison yeast... and also the American Farm House blend yeast.. both are nice in a Saison. Maybe add a little orange peel to the brew too.
If you create a starter then keep half of it you sound be good.
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Permalink Reply by Ralph on
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Watch the dry/late hopping. I find the saison yeast characteristics can fight with the hop flavours. Or if you are going to do it how about splitting the batch and doing one with a dry hop and the other without or something?
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Permalink Reply by David R on
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Yeah thats a good idea Ralph, could brew two 12L batches with the same malt then do one with a more traditional quantity of hops and another with more IPA-level quantities, including dry hops. My wife is a complete hop-head so I'm sure she'll drink it even if it is a bit much for the average drinker!
Grant, I've read the history but I must admit I don't think I've tried one much under 7%! I do like the idea of making it a bit more "sessionable" though.
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It is not about being a hop head or not. I did a IPA saison and the flavour combo of the late/dry hops and yeast character was nasty!
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Have you got a link to the recipe so I can see what not to do? :P
I guess when combining two different flavours like funky European yeasts and strong US hops there is quite a balancing act to follow.
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I think it was the dry hopping that tipped the balance. There was a bunch of Nelson Sauvin that I dry hopped with...
Probably avoiding dry hopping and not going overboard on 0 minute additions will be fine.
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Permalink Reply by Josh C on
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Hi David,
it pays to use a yeast pitching rate calculator to determine the ideal pitching rate with liquid yeast. I use the Mrmalty calculator but there are others. Using the calculator and entering a 12l batch, a single pack will only do up to an OG of 1.045 with an optimal pitching rate, although you can of course pitch a bit lower with usually no ill effects. That's assuming 100% viability, 70% is probably more likely. For a higher OG (say 1.060) a one litre starter will give you plenty of yeast.
I always make starters with liquid yeast and get good results using the pitching calculators (disclaimer, I am still a newbie myself).
I haven't used either yeast strain myself but I am planning on doing a saison with the French saison yeast which I have heard good things about.
Both recipes look good and honestly I think a citra saison sounds delicious. I like the look of the second recipe but I would be worried that it may finish too dry without anything for body and using French Saison yeast (which attenuates very dry), although a look at the style guidelines says that can finish down to 1.002!. Bitterness looks high but is similar to the 8wired saison so probably OK even if it's technically outside the style guidelines. would personally leave the extras out myself as well, that yeast alone should give plenty of character without having to add spices and such. BJCP style guidelines also say 5-7% for saisons
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Thanks Josh, I'll have a look at the calculator. I noticed one on Wyeast's website too.
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Permalink Reply by Peter Smith on
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Wyeast 3726-Private Collection Farmhouse Ale is available at the moment, I got one to try for low alcohol Saison and a Blonde for quaffing while fishing.Beer Styles: Saison, Biere de Garde, Belgian Blonde Ale, Belgian Pale Ale, Belgian Golden Strong AleProfile: This strain produces complex esters balanced with earthy/spicy notes. Slightly tart and dry with a peppery finish. A perfect strain for farmhouse ales and saisons.Alc. Tolerance 12% ABVFlocculation mediumAttenuation 74-79%Temp. Range 70-84°F (21-29°C)
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Permalink Reply by Liam Callaghan on
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I really like the french farmhouse yeast, a real work horse and happy under a massive range of temperaures giving a wide range of flavours. I've run em at 16-28 degrees and enjoyed a few in between. Next one this summer will be 30 plus to see what it gives me.
The hops I usually keep low though as they compete with the flavours from the yeast, which can be quiet subtle if brewed at the cooler temperatures (16-20). The french yeast seem to promote the malty flavours so a small addition of special malts goes a long way. 50g of special B or 100g Munich II in a 50-60 litre batch is an awesome flavour addition.
The ones I've made have been really crisp and dry with a small additiona of sugar to help make them so dry. The french yeast is the best I've ever seen for this dropping out a late 1.050's brew to 0.996. Super dry! They were all carbonated to a very high level too which was easier in the bottle than the keg for me, pours with a huge rocky head on it that lasts to the bottom of the stein :)
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Sounds interesting Liam. I have a spare room with a heat pump where I usually ferment and keep it around 18-20C. I've also got another room with a 2000L aquarium (heated to 27C) that also has heatpump running at around 22C [heating only] that I could easily warm it up a bit more. (don't even ask what our power bill is!!)
Dan has kindly offered me a spare pack of Danstar Belle Saison yeast, so I think I'm going to make two identical brews and do one with the saison yeast (and ferment in the mid 20s perhaps?) and the other with good old US05 as I could do with a nice easy drinking pale/golden ale for summer. How does this look, based kinda on the two recipes I posted earlier;
12L batch, 65% efficiency (sometimes a little more, better to underestimate IMO!)
2.4kg 2-row
450g Munich 10L
200g Wheat
100g Carapils
4g Pacific Jade @60 min
5g Citra @15
12g Citra @10
12g Citra @5
OG 1.052
FG 1.009 Saison, 5.6% ABV
FG 1.016 US05, 4.8% ABV
35 IBU, 5SRM
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They look good to me mate, pretty much same recipe as me (apart from hop varieties). The only addition I'd add is a little sugar to help dry them out. If you have never tried a dry highly carbonated beer your in for a real treat :)
Conditioning rooms?!
You lucky bugger!
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