Priming

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by denimglen on April 28, 2008 at 5:53pm

I'd wait until you'd brewed the recipe a couple of times to know what the FG is, I find with my recipes that expected FG's are never correct.

I'd use a priming calculator to figure out how much fermentables to add to it before bottling - you should be able to find one with a google search.

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Permalink Reply by Martin Bridges on April 28, 2008 at 8:01pm

I'd say you definitely need to prime, even for a beer where you don't expect to be able to detect significant carbonation. Beers without carbonation always taste thin to me.

As denimglen has said, you need to use a carbonation calculator (there are loads around on the web) to work out how much fermentables (dextrose etc.) to put in. I would strongly recommend mixing the priming solution with the beer in your racking container, rather than trying to dose each bottle individually.

And don't worry about the newbie questions - I'm still asking em!

Martin

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Permalink Reply by denimglen on April 28, 2008 at 8:04pm

Definiately use a bottling bucket like mentioned by Martin, sounds a little tedious but when you calculate that you need to add 0.7456 teaspoons per bottle works out a lot easier to just boil up a syrup, add to the bucket and bottle from there.

howtobrew.com has a nice, detailed description of this bottling method if you don't know of it already.

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Permalink Reply by Richard Walley on April 28, 2008 at 8:18pm

Thanks, guys. But do I really really need to prime it? I know it's a bit odd for the Southern Hemisphere, but I genuinely don't want fizzy beer. Will I get anything secondary by just bottling?

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Permalink Reply by denimglen on April 28, 2008 at 8:26pm

You can just bottle it but it will probably be flat or overcarb'd. Unless you know the FG +- a couple of points and the SG at the time of bottling you may be able to do it but it's a little risky.

Most bitters are carbonated to about 2 volumes, 1.5 on the low side and 2.4 on the high.

Going by a recipe I made recently for 21L I would have used between 54 and 130g of corn sugar which would get me within 1.5 - 2.4 volumes of CO2 which is what the style guidelines reccommend.

You'd probably have to do some research on when to bottle to get the correct carbonation from your original fermentables - try a search for krausening, that should start you on the right foot.

At the end of the day it's your beer and the reason most of us homebrew - to make our OWN beer, not someone elses, so at the end of the day it's your decision. I'd just hate to see a fellow brewer put in so much time and work on a batch for it all to end up undercarbonated and (possibly) unenjoyable.

Cheers and beers,


Glenim.

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Permalink Reply by Gullyman on April 28, 2008 at 9:05pm

Totally agree with all that's been said.

I'd give that shiny new hydrometer you've invested in a work out and wait until the fermentations pretty much stopped (wait a couple of weeks and check that the reading doesn't drop over 2-3 days) then bulk prime as suggested above. It's the only way to have control over the process and make sure you get the amount of carbonation you want.

What ever the beer I would definately recommend giving it some carbonation (and I'm a warm bitter loving pom!).

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Permalink Reply by Richard Walley on April 28, 2008 at 9:43pm

I, too, am a 'warm' bitter loving pom (if, by 'warm', you mean something above the zero degrees kelvin which appears to be the accepted serving temperature in most NZ bars). And I think that's why I'm fretting about it - I'm terrified that I'll end up with something fizzy and undrinkable.

I was actually inspired to take up brewing by a trip back to the UK last year. I checked into my hotel, wandered in the local and got a hand-pulled pint of London Pride, and nearly burst into tears. And this was Pride, for the love of god! I just yearn for a beer I can actually drink a pint of without feeling like a dirigible.

But I'd be an idiot to ignore all the advice (particularly having asked for it), so I'll investigate a carbonation calculator and have a crack. Even the brown lager of my worst nightmares is going to taste better than Tui. Cheers, everybody.

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Permalink Reply by Richard Walley on April 28, 2008 at 9:47pm

And in an amusing coda, the beer recipator just told me that I needed to add a total of 0g of DME to reach my desired carbonation volume of 0.75. I'm not entirely sure whether this is me or the website.

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Permalink Reply by denimglen on April 28, 2008 at 9:53pm

I just gave it a shot, I got 0g as well, it's because of the residual, still dissolved CO2 from fermentation. Although 0.75 seems a little low to me, I'd overcarb slightly to allow a little loss of CO2 on pouring but if you're happy with that number then go ahead and bottle it.

Also I believe you should go with the highest temperature after the bulk of fermentation not the temp at bottling time (as stated on that page), this should give the best results IMO.

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Permalink Reply by Dan on April 28, 2008 at 11:54pm

I calculate it at bottling temp, theres a big difference between a ferment temp at 20 and a bottling temp of 8, and a big difference in the amount of primer used, the colder it is the more residual Co2 is in solution, Co2 is still produced albeit slowly after fermentation has finished so its going to remain in solution, well thats what I think and I get consistent results.
I poured off a glass straight out a well finished fermentor today sitting at 8oC, it had a low but pleasant amount of carbonation.

Ive done a no prime bottling before, well after ferment had finished, it was reasonably carbonated after 6 months, it worked better when the ferment was nearing its end, a stab in the dark really but it turned out great a few weeks later.

Richard you could always bottle a few straight out of your fermentor with no priming sugar even at different times before and after fermentation has finished before you bottle the rest and see how they go compared to the bulk of the primed bottles, that way you dont end up with a whole batch of flat beer and you,ll get an idea of when and how to use the no prime method.

Permalink Reply by Edward Siddle on April 30, 2008 at 4:35pm

I've done those calculators before too that people are referring to and got a 0g of dextrose (or whatever) result. I haven't tried bottling without priming before, even when seeking very low carbonation beer, but I would add a couple of things to the pot here:
1) might partly depend on your yeast. I have found that a yeast like saf 05 does continue to eat sugars in the bottle. for example, i had a stout i made it with it and it just kept getting more and more carbonated, despite only having quite low priming sugars added. some lager yeasts will do this too but that obviously isn't really relevant here. saf04 - perhaps less likely, both because it's not a big attenuator and also because it tends to flocculate out so thoroughly that even with good doses of priming sugar it can take 2 weeks to condition.
2) another factor is the strength of the beer of course. a big fat barley wine is likely to keep on fermenting in the bottle even without priming. again this might not be that relevant here if you're aiming to brew a beer the strength of London Pride (OG 1042ish).

All this said, this is what I do:

Short version: 20-30g dextrose bulk primed into 20L of green beer.

Long version: I wait until fermentation has finished, as measured by consistent hydrometer readings over 3 days. I then wait another few days generally to let the beer settle and clean itself up a bit. I think this probably allows time for further CO2 to come out of solution. Most of us probably have had that experience where the fermenter keeps bubbling even when we know fermentation has finished. Then, and this is something you will have to do by trial and error, I add a small amount of priming sugars. In my case, I have settled on about 30g of dextrose for a 20L batch of low or midstrength beer (eg OG 1035 through to 1050) to achieve a more 'English' type of carbonation (I'm assuming you are bottling rather than kegging; i know nothing about priming for the latter). You could even go as low as 20g, I reckon. Finally, when I pour the beer, I am quite rough, and often lift the bottle pretty high above the bottom of the glass. that tends to help shake more of the CO2 out of solution and you get a bit of a head on it too.

hope some of these thoughts add something. sorry for the long post - but it is an issue, as a bottler, rather than a kegger with a handpump like some, that I have given some thought to in the last year or so!

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Permalink Reply by Richard Walley on April 30, 2008 at 10:06pm

Actually, I think Dan might be onto a winner here - I'll bottle a few with no sugar, work out how much goop I need for the rest (thanks for your guide, Edward) and see how they compare. Genuis! This is what home brewing's all about. Probably.

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