Regular monthly Auckland-area SOBA meetings
We had a very successful initial meeting at Galbraiths on Saturday. Many thanks to the people who made the effort to come down (we had about 10 in total). A very interesting discussion was had, and some very good beer was drunk. It was really nice to meet a few people I'd previously only communicated with by email, and a few others who were totally new to me!
The purpose of the meeting was to discuss whether or not there was merit in the idea of regular Auckland-area get-togethers, and if so to talk about what form these might take. I'm pleased to say that there was unanimous support for regular meetings. Indeed it was felt that
this was exactly what was needed to get SOBA moving in the Auckland region.
In summary, we decided:
- monthly is the best frequency for the meetings
- Saturday afternoons are as good a time as any
- we should rotate the venue around different establishments (a few suggestions were mooted, and more are sought)
- each meeting should have a theme (e.g. a semi-formal tasting, homebrewing, beer guides etc.). Lots of good ideas were talked about.
There are a few things for future discussion (particularly whether or not we can do something jointly with the Hamilton-based folks) but I think a lot of progress was made.
I volunteered to come up with a date for the next meeting and after careful consideration I've come up with the following suggestion:
SECOND SATURDAY = SOBA!
My proposal is that the Auckland-area meetings should be on the second Saturday of every month at 2pm. That would mean that the next meeting would be on Saturday 10th May at 2pm, venue and theme to be confirmed (suggestions welcome).
Hope this works for people. I'll send a reminder out nearer the time.
Martin
The purpose of the meeting was to discuss whether or not there was merit in the idea of regular Auckland-area get-togethers, and if so to talk about what form these might take. I'm pleased to say that there was unanimous support for regular meetings. Indeed it was felt that
this was exactly what was needed to get SOBA moving in the Auckland region.
In summary, we decided:
- monthly is the best frequency for the meetings
- Saturday afternoons are as good a time as any
- we should rotate the venue around different establishments (a few suggestions were mooted, and more are sought)
- each meeting should have a theme (e.g. a semi-formal tasting, homebrewing, beer guides etc.). Lots of good ideas were talked about.
There are a few things for future discussion (particularly whether or not we can do something jointly with the Hamilton-based folks) but I think a lot of progress was made.
I volunteered to come up with a date for the next meeting and after careful consideration I've come up with the following suggestion:
SECOND SATURDAY = SOBA!
My proposal is that the Auckland-area meetings should be on the second Saturday of every month at 2pm. That would mean that the next meeting would be on Saturday 10th May at 2pm, venue and theme to be confirmed (suggestions welcome).
Hope this works for people. I'll send a reminder out nearer the time.
Martin
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Martin Bridges on
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Hallertau is certainly on my list as a venue for a future meeting. I'd like to co-ordinate this (if possible) with the brewing of the SOBA National Homebrew Competition winner, however.
Next meeting will be at Galbraiths on Saturday 10th May at 2pm. Theme will be "Is there a NZ Pilsner style?".
Martin
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Permalink Reply by nzbrewer on
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We are currently defining the NZ Pilsner style for the next BrewNZ
104. NZ Strong Pilsener
Full malt and a higher original gravity provide malt/alcohol sweetness and a medium body. Color may be yellow-blond to full gold. Alcohol content is greater than New Zealand Premium Lagers or Bohemium-Style Pilseners. The gooseberry, passion fruit and citrus aromas and flavors are directly attributed to the use of hop varieties grown in, or originating from, New Zealand. Hop bitterness is medium to high. Light fruity esters are acceptable. Diacetyl should be absent. A slight chill haze is acceptable.
Original Gravity (ºPlato): 1.050-1.058 (12.5-14.4 ºPlato)
Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (ºPlato): 1.011-1.014 (2.9-3.4 ºPlato)
Alcohol by Volume: 5.1-6.2%)
Bitterness IBU: 33-42
Color EBC: 8-20 EBC
other notes from Derek Walsh
- I definitely agree on your name choice (your country... your choice),
- I also agree about medium to high hop aroma (there is no point of
contention here)
- I totally disagree on your alcohol issue unless you wish to eliminate
Emerson's (6.23% abv), Biman (5.86% abv) and Tuatara (5.75% abv) as style
examples (3 of the best examples in my opinion)?
- "we have judged some lovely examples at 4.5%abv" would also eliminate Moa
Methode and Mac's Hop Rocker!
- We agree... surely more malt character is included in the text "Full malt
and a higher original gravity provide malt/alcohol sweetness and a medium
body..."?
- I disagree with your statement that 5.1% abv for a Pils(e)ner is too high.
Pils(e)ner (just like Bock and I.P.A. has sub-styles) and shouldn't, in my
opinion, be dumbed down to nothing more than Pilsner Urquell or Budvar
clones. Here in the Netherlands two of the countries most outstanding
Pilsn(e)rs are 5.5 and 6.0% abv (see p178 & 179 of Michael's very last book
"Eyewitness Companions Beer" that we both worked on).
- Bohemium was an intentional typo to see if you kiwi's have spelling
checkers and actually read this stuff!
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Permalink Reply by Tony on
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Excellent NZbrewer, can I take it that you will be there on Saturday? I am bending over backwards to be there, it will be my first meeting.
I look forward to this debate/ discusion and I will pin my flag to the mast now by stating-
I think the definition you have listed above is not a pilsener.
I look forward to discussing this with you all further, and giving my reasons and definitions for this.
Tony aka Tolak
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Wish I could be there but busy this Saturday.
Would love to get feedback from all that attend so this style definition can be polished a bit more
Cheers
Luke
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Permalink Reply by Stu McKinlay on
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Great to see this here Luke. Very good work.
First thoughts -
I'd Change:
* Alcohol by Volume: 5.1-6.2%
to
* Alcohol by Volume: 4.7-6.2%
Reason: Wanaka Brewski, a classic example (when at its best), is 4.8%. There are a couple of others (incl. Founder's Tall Blone) that weigh in just under 5%.
Note: Bitterness low end may need to drop a shade, if you did this.
And remove:
* Alcohol content is greater than New Zealand Premium Lagers or Bohemium-Style Pilseners.
Reason: Do we need to compare to other styles? If so, what about German, American or International-style pilsners? I know american ones can get up to around 6% too
Would also change:
* Color EBC: 8-20 EBC
to
* Color EBC: 6-16 EBC
Reason: 20 is getting into the lighter end of amber,which seems a little dark to me. 8 might not be quite low enough for the palest examples (e.g. Moa - though does this even fit in this category?).
I'd add:
* Low levels of DMS are acceptable.
* Hop aroma and flavour is medium to high.
Reason: Because these traits exist in the examples I've tasted.
Name:
I agree in part with with Tony's name issue - many of these beers are blurring the line between lager and ale, for a start. Although these beers are generally called "Pilsner" - is there actually a more suitable name? "New Zealand Common Beer" ;-) It's difficult one.
Is there a chance of having this included in the World Beer Cup guidleines? If not, will BrewNZ own the right? And, if so, are other organisations (e.g. SOBA) allowed to use the guideline as long as they reference BrewNZ?
Again, excellent work. Thanks for putting this up. I'm most interested to see where it goes. Have you put it out to the Brewer's Guild members for feedback?
Lots to talk about for Auckland SOBA members. I hope Galbraith's have some "NZ Pils" in the fridge or on tap!!! Have fun.
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Excellent! Stu you are getting closer. In fear of sounding like a bureaucrat (which I am absolutely not), I think we need to first define what a pilsener is.
Traditionally, a Pilsener is:
- ABV 4.5-6
-Saarz noble or saarz hops
-SRM 3-4/EBC 6-8
- is clear
-can be bitter (EG. Jever)
- fermentation between 0-5 deg
In my humble opinion, if a beer has none of these qualities, it is most definitely not a Pils. If it has some of these qualities but not all, it 'may' be a 'type' of Pils.
Be bold Luke, be a leader. Call it a New Zealand Pilsener or Pale ale, or Ale. Eg- NZPils.
Traditional Pilseners- Warsteiner, Jever, Urquell, Veltins, Krombacher.
Haut rein!
Tony
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If we go too traditional then a Pilsner should only come from Plzen - shouldn't it? The rest should be "Plzen-style".
BJCP and World Beer Cup have pretty good definitions, which are a bit broader than what you've bulleted above.
There is a wide range of Pilsner within Germany alone, let alone the original Pilsner from Czech Republic and it's many brothers.
I'd describe Pilsner as a bitter-balanced malty pale lager.
I think the NZ style is proabably nestled between 'Export' and 'Pilsner' myself, with the balance being a little to the Pilsner side.
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Then it's not a pilsener then is it? You can call it what you want, but it is what it is, or more correctly what it isn't. If you take the star off a Mercedes and put it on a toyota do you then call it a Mercedes?
I don't give a rhinos left testicle what any organization want to label it. As you rightly point out, there are already so many styles of pilsener, that are real pilsener (not just those from Germany or the Czech republic). There is no need to barstardise it, just call it something else. How far can you change something before it no longer resembles the original product and still call it by the same name?
The definition I gave is from the original style of pilsener. In Germany they would never call some of these beers pilsener, for the very reasons I just gave. They and the Czechs Developed and perfected it over a hundred years ago(circa 1840). So who's right? The world beer cup is run by Americans, you decide? Having said that the Americans have labeled there own pilsener and call it so, good on them.
I am not a traditionalist for the sake of tradition, I'm just into integrity and calling a spade a spade. The definition is loose enough without rewriting it, thats the art of brewing. Just call it something else or make a pilsener. We do make some good pilseners. Some others I would label an IPA or light ale, lager. As you can see by the examples I listed above, those beers are varied in their tastes. I would agree that perhaps it doesn't need to be a traditional Saarz hop, but there are already so many varieties of Saarz it doesn't need to be. You could grow a saarz down here and get a totally different flavour, but it's still a saarz. There are other requirements which I listed that I would say are equally as important.
I love a good debate, especially over a good pilsener.
Cheers.
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Firstly, we are not talking about re-writing a style. We are talking about creating a new one. One that best describes the PilsNZer* beers that are quite uniqiue to NZ. [*Pilsnzer was used by beer writer and judge Derek Walsh, in an Beer and Brewer article on these beers].
Secondly, there are two arguments:
(a) what is the name of this new New Zealand style
(b) what are the appearance, aroma, flavour, palate and overall descriptors that define this beer
The majority of my first post was in reference to (B). This is what I think we need to fully define first. After that the answer to (A) will become clearer.
Beers that I think may fit into this new style (amongst others):
Moa Original, Invercargill Biman, Emerson's Pilsner, Tuatara Pilsner, Founders Tall Blonde, Croucher Pilsner, Limburg Czechmate (probably no longer made, though you still can probably find it), Wanaka Brewski, Tasman Pilsner, Tasman Lager (strong for style at 6.5%), Lighthouse Tasman Bay Pilsner, Macs Hop Rocker (wicked Blonde would have too - RIP), Harringtons Pilsner, Shakespeare's Summers Day Bohemian, Monteith's Pilsner, Speight's Pilsner, Three Boys Pils.
These beers range in style as widely as the Pilsners of western Europe (Czech, German, Dutch and Belgian) but not as wide as some styles (esp some of the Belgian ones!).
I'm still leaning towards a pilsner-related working title of "Plzen-style Strong New Zealand Lager" or "NZ Strong Pilsner" but, firstly, do you have any thoughts around point (B): the description of the style?
I'm thinking, in addition to the above points that I made, that chill haze is not acceptable.
Luke, when are you expecting to come up with a final definition? What is the process?
Cheers
Stu (thirsty for ale, after all this lager talk)
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