Red IPA - Riwaka

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Crusader-Rob on July 20, 2016 at 3:03pm

Use riwaka as a back up/layering hop.

but id use amarillo simcoe and citra as well.

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Permalink Reply by David R on July 20, 2016 at 3:57pm

I agree with Rob, I haven't brewed one but after trying Crouchers Riwaka single hop IPA I think I prefer it with something rather than on its own. What to use it with depends on your grain bill, are you brewing something that is more like a hoppy amber ale, or a West Coast IPA with a little more colour? I used Simcoe and Cascade in a fairly malty red IPA recently (which was better than the one I ended up entering in the Western Brewers comp, unfortunately!) and it was ok, but I think I preferred the combo of Simcoe/Columbus/Amarillo I've used in the past.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Sharp on July 20, 2016 at 4:13pm

Below is a beer I have in my fridge at the moment and I'm pretty happy with it. The idea was to compliment the fruitiness of the roast malts with fruity hops. There's quite a bit sweetness to accentuate the fruit - might be too much for some, but it's what I wanted. If you sub the Simcoe for the NS and Centennial I reckon that would work. Personally I wouldn't use the Citra because it will dominate, and obviously the EKG would be lost. Unless you have a lot of Simcoe I wouldn't waste any of those hops on bittering - get something cheap and neutral (Warrior serves me well).

Betelgeuse

Method:	All Grain	Style:	Specialty IPA: Red IPA
Boil Time:	60 min	Batch Size:	28 liters (ending kettle volume)
Boil Size:	33 liters	Efficiency:	90% (ending kettle)
Boil Gravity:	1.056 (recipe based estimate)

Original Gravity: 1.066

Final Gravity: 1.017

ABV (alternate): 6.73%

IBU (tinseth): 62.93

SRM (morey): 18.46

Fermentables

Amount	Fermentable	PPG	°L	Bill %
2.76 kg	Gladfield Ale	37	2.75	41.2%
0.35 kg	Gladfield Shepherd Delight	37	152	5.2%
0.21 kg	Gladfield Redback	35	35	3.1%
0.21 kg	Gladfield Aurora	37	24	3.1%
0.07 kg	Gladfield Roasted Barley	29	675	1%
3.1 kg	Gladfield Vienna	37	3.5	46.3%

Hops

Amount	Variety	Type	AA	Use	Time	IBU
12.5 g	Warrior	Pellet	17.2	Boil	60 min	18.43
12.5 g	Pacific Jade	Pellet	10.4	Boil	60 min	11.14
21 g	Amarillo	Pellet	8.3	Boil	10 min	5.42
21 g	Riwaka	Pellet	5.1	Boil	10 min	3.33
20 g	Nelson Sauvin	Pellet	10.9	Boil	10 min	6.78
21 g	Amarillo	Pellet	8.3	Whirlpool at °C	30 min	6.23
21 g	Riwaka	Pellet	5.1	Whirlpool at 100 °C	30 min	3.83
20 g	Nelson Sauvin	Pellet	10.9	Whirlpool at °C	30 min	7.79
20 g	Amarillo	Pellet	8.3	Dry Hop	4 days
20 g	Centennial	Pellet	9.5	Dry Hop	4 days
20 g	Riwaka	Pellet	5.1	Dry Hop	4 days

Mash Guidelines

Amount	Description	Type	Temp	Time
--		Infusion	66 C	60 min
Starting Mash Thickness: 2.5 L/kg

Yeast

Wyeast - London ESB Ale 1968

Attenuation (custom): 72% Flocculation: Very High Optimum Temp: 17.8 - 22.2 °C Starter: Yes Fermentation Temp: 20 °C Pitch Rate: 1.0 (M cells / ml / ° P)

Target Water Profile: Burton on Trent (historic and decarbonated)

Ca+2	Mg+2	Na+	Cl-	SO4-2	HCO3-
187	41	113	85	720	20

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Permalink Reply by Ben Dean on July 20, 2016 at 10:31pm

Thanks for the replies. Going off all your advice I think I'll go with an Amarillo, Simcoe, Riwaka combo. I have Pacific Jade for bittering.

Grain bill is my tried and tested go to recipe for American ambers.

85% Gladfield Ale
7.5% Redback
3% Gladfield dark crystal
2% Gladfield medium crystal
2% Gladiator
0.5% Roasted Barley

I usually hop to a moderate level with this grain bill but I fancy throwing a bucket load of late/dry hops in and seeing what I get. I usually aim for an OG of 1.060 for my hoppy ambers but I think I'll bump it up to 1.070 for this one. I'll probably up my IBUs to 60+ too.

Any suggestions as to what hop ratios would work well are welcome. I've only used small quantities of Riwaka in the past but the smell when you open a pack is incredible. Previous experience tells me I can go mental with the Amarillo, and I can use a lot of Simcoe if I have something fruity to balance it with.

Cheers

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Permalink Reply by Crusader-Rob on July 21, 2016 at 10:20am

Riwaka - A Littoe goes a long way.

My personal opinion, is that wehile its a fantastic hop, it works much better paired with other hops, and for me i avoid the dryhop for riwaka.

Maybe use 50g at 10 mins, then use Amarillo/simcoe for the 0 and dryhopping? you'll get a shit tonne of riwaka comethrough. if your going to 1070 maybe use a 30 min addition to increase it, add some layering.

so Maybe something like:

25g Bitter (thats what your total already was) @ 60

 simcoe would work well here 20g maybe@30

50g Riwaka@10

15g Amarillo@10

40-50gSimcoe @0

40-50gAmarillo @0

40-50gSimcoe Dry

40-50gAmarillo Dry

You could also add the citra in the dryhop as well. so 30-40g of amarillo/simcoe/citra (each)

Mash nice and low for a good amont of dryness i reckon - itll still ahve a good malt back ground, but the hops will shine through.

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Permalink Reply by Peter Smith on July 22, 2016 at 12:21pm

I have had mixed results getting either tropical passionfruit as desired, or a dank/herbal result that I think others sometimes refer to as Onion or Diesel.    I prefer using it before the 10 min mark, or perhaps limited at flameout.   There are other hops that I am happy to throw 100+g into a whirlpool but not Riwaka.    You are safe to go massive with Amarillo like 150g into a 75C Whirlpool...  (you will get GP Angry Peaches)

This was the last time I tried big Riwaka whirlpool etc,   to Dank for me

I have brewed Kelly Milligans  "Smell the Roses IPA"  recipe a few times with subs, its a good base recipe

http://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/forum/topics/soba-nhc-2013-recipes

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Permalink Reply by Crusader-Rob on July 22, 2016 at 12:26pm

Really??

Oh interesting. I get the Diesel thing. Its almost like Raro when fresh. thats why i generally only ever use it around 10 mins. It does go pretty well with Citra (really well infact)

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Permalink Reply by Peter Smith on July 22, 2016 at 12:40pm

I have had the Raro result as well,  but unlike other flavours its not that stable, I just find that Riwaka changes over time in keg way more then many other flavours.

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Permalink Reply by Tom on July 22, 2016 at 2:46pm

I'm not really a fan of Riwaka, I've never found it to be anywhere near the descriptors. Instead I get Wooly Nightshade, diesel tobaco. I brew an American Red Ale/ Red IPA and use Falconers Flight as the feature, with NZ Liberty, NZ Cascade as features and bitter with Columbus. I think the highly kilned malts work well with American C type hops.

With your list I personally would go for Citra Simcoe and Amarillo. Citra/Amarillo heavy late additions and dry hop.

Either way you go please post your notes. I'm a huge fan of the style.

Good luck.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Sharp on July 23, 2016 at 9:57am

I didn't get anything unpleasant from the hopping rate in the recipe I posted above. I've always thought that the dank flavour that you can get from Riwaka comes from boiling it too much rather than the dry hops.

If you want to find out whether you like the flavour from dry hopping with Riwaka you could try dropping a few measured samples of pellets in a neutral pale ale and recapping as described here http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2013/03/dry-hopped-bud-light.html . I'd suggest a few experiments in the range of 0.5 to 3 grams per litre.

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Permalink Reply by David R on July 23, 2016 at 1:29pm

Since it looks like you're brewing more of a hoppy amber ale than red IPA (my red IPA recipe only has 7.5% crystal total, where as my American Amber recipe looks a lot more like yours with a bit over double the amount) I think the dankness/diesel/whatever of Riwaka could work well, but as John Palmer said "the better part of flavour is discretion". I'm not a fan of tons of crystal malts plus all fruity US hops, a bit of spice/dank to balance it all out is a good thing IMO. Equal parts of Simcoe/Amarillo plus a moderate dose of Riwaka at 10min and a smaller dose at FO is what I'd go for. Maybe.

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Permalink Reply by Ben Dean on July 23, 2016 at 4:46pm

Yeah, it's definitely an American amber grain bill. Although the redback doesn't add anywhere near as much sweetness as other crystal malts.

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