GFbeerGuy's Comments

Hey Alex, coupla points. Do you have 2 separate vessels for HLT and mash tun or are they somehow combined?

I would advise against having an element in your mash tun to heat the mash. You can get away with heating the mash runoff (sweet wort) but you really can't heat the grain directly  it will scorch and burn.

There is really only 2 ways to apply heat to maintain a mash temperature, and they both require recirculation (you need pumps): RIMS and HERMS. Do some google searching on those, but just quickly RIMS (Recirculating Infusion Mash System) is heating the recirculating wort directly, with HERMS (Heat Exchange Recirculating Mash System) you heat water which in turn (through the heat exchanger) heats the wort. Generally with HERMS there is less risk of scorching the wort.

Because both of these methods require expensive equipment (pumps and plumbing) homebrewers took to using insulated vessels to mash in – the humble chilly bin, with which you can infuse once and hold the mash temp for an hour.

With this really common single infusion method you only have one option to increase the mash temp, say for mash out: add more hot water. Plenty of people do it, it's what I did on my old system.

Does all that make sense?

Hi Barry sorry for the slow reply, work as been getting the best of me lately. Thank you for the advice all very helpful points and have helped me stay clear from a epic problem later on. I haven't quite got the set up for a HERMS system, however, i read an article on BYO who attached his copper immersion chiller to his HLT, placed it in his mashtun and ran the water through it and pumped it back into his HLT to maintain his temperature. What are your thoughts on this? Sorry for all the questions but im looking to put a digital thermostat onto my HLT i.e. a STC 1000 with a prob, have your heard of people doing this at all or do you have any suggestions?

Personally I would do it the other way around – stick the immersion chiller in the HLT and recirculate the wort through it. Though you'd probably need to recirc the hot liquor (water in HLT) also so that the temperature is even.

You absolutely can use an STC 1000 with a probe in your HLT. That's what my old system used. Be aware though that it's either off or on. Which means you get temperature fluctuations above and below your set point before the STC has time to react. I brewed perfectly well for about 5 years with that setup.

A more accurate way to do it is with a cheap PID/SSR combo. A PID will 'learn' your system and keep your temperature much more precise (within 0.5degC) with no over or under shoots. Note you can't use the K type thermocouple/probe that comes in that package, use one of these instead.

My immersion chiller is soft copper from trademe to this point i haven't had wort put though it yet, would this be safe to do so or would you reccomend me to find another metal for the HERMS coil? I'd have to buy a STC 1000 which will be the same cost (once shipping + GST is included) as the PID system you suggested so i might aswell head in that direction. Is there anything else required for the PID controller besides the RTD sensor? Ive been looking at 'The Electric Brewery' set up (very impressive) would i need another RTD sensor for the wort outlet so i can monitor it ?

Thanks again!

Your copper immersion chiller will be fine to recirc wort through as a heat exchanger.

You could add another sensor and PID to measure wort as you recirculate it, or, you could just use a good old glass dial thermometer to measure your general mash temp. It's totally up to how much you want to spend, spending more makes things easier and more accurate to a point, but there's no reason your beer can't be awesome with just analogue dial thermometers. I used them for everything for ages and made great beer.

I have a spare Kegking glass dial which i might just use (have to have something to blame my bad batches on) The PID system you suggested can you program it to hold one temperature for a certain amount of time and then it increases temperature for another amount of time say for a mashout?

No, there is no timer function on that particular model.

For that you need the ramp/soak model from Auber, significantly more expensive. Again depends on your budget, and appetite to automate something that's as simple as pushing a button a few times.

 I went for this PID  

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=239    for the following reason

1. I went SSR so that I can tune the wattage all the way down to say 10% of rated  element value.
2. I will use this pid in my HLT, it has a timer, so If I want to mash in at 6am for a morning brew, I fill the HLT the night before and I don't have to get up at 5am and turn things on.   Same for say a 5pm mash in after work.
3. I will run a copper coil inside my HLT and recirc wort through this coil during the Vorlauf     http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Vorlauf   and if I am doing step mashes  (though don't see steps as that important right now).
4. Its not the cheapest PID out there but seems to be the only one with the timer function for auto switch on.

For the other PIDS that I will eventually buy I wont need a timer.  At the moment buy boil kettle has 2 elements they are either on or off manually, suits me fine right now.

Thanks Peter its always good to see how other people approach the same problem. I have troubles sleeping in so i don't really getting up that early due to the fact that my body is awesome and cant process gluten in the slightest im more leaning towards the ramp/soak model because you need to do a full decoction mash when ever i brew all grain. With the ramp/soak model would i still have to buy a SSR if so would this do
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=393

Just for interest sake if you want to see what an gluten free mash regime looks like give this a read (half way down)
http://www.glutenfreehomebrewing.org/all_grain_brewing_tutorial.php

I was misled there Barry, I thought this was an out of the box function.   Looks like I will be buying another relay. Can you send me or post the wiring diagram.

If you have the copper inside the HLT, the  mass of all the water in the HLT and your ability to heat that mass will define your max ramp speed.   My HLT has a 2kw element and takes some time when fill to move 10C.  Not sure how fast you want to ramp the mash up. 

Have you seen this other approach?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIJascCLwHo

and this on it in test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djQGfrJKwgw

Yeah I was mislead too. They really should be giving refunds, or make a PID that does what we both wanted – seems an obvious piece of functionality to me.

I'll email you the wiring diagram, a French Canadian guy off theelectricbrewery forum sent it to me. It's pretty simple I think.

Hi Barry, i have got one of those timer pid's myself, can you send through the wiring diagram to me as well when you can. Cheers

Morning Barry, I was just reading one of your comments about a 5500W ULWD element that you were thinking about using to heat 20 litres of wort to a boil and you suggested that this might be too much power (from the element) in relation to how much liquid you were wanting to heat. Ive got the same type of element (5500w) and typically i will only make around 20 litres at a time would i need a simmerstat type of thing to tone it down a bit or is it ok the way it is?

Cheers

Which PID unit do you use for this?