Simple Things to Avoid When Kit Brewing –A.K.A. Don’t Listen to the Can! - RealBeer.co.nz2024-03-29T14:24:26Zhttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/forum/topics/simple-things-to-avoid-when-kit-brewing-a-k-a-don-t-listen-to-the?commentId=1500433%3AComment%3A172841&feed=yes&xn_auth=noDehydrated yeast have very pe…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2015-04-27:1500433:Comment:2186792015-04-27T08:07:23.222ZMikehttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Mike317
<p>Dehydrated yeast have very permeable cell walls, if you rehydrate with 18-20C wort, the sugar will pass through the cell and weaken/kill some of them, about 30-40% loss of viability in some cases <a href="http://www.northernbrewer.com/connect/2010/06/the-importance-of-being-hydrated/" target="_blank">http://www.northernbrewer.com/connect/2010/06/the-importance-of-being-hydrated/</a>. See also …</p>
<p>Dehydrated yeast have very permeable cell walls, if you rehydrate with 18-20C wort, the sugar will pass through the cell and weaken/kill some of them, about 30-40% loss of viability in some cases <a href="http://www.northernbrewer.com/connect/2010/06/the-importance-of-being-hydrated/" target="_blank">http://www.northernbrewer.com/connect/2010/06/the-importance-of-being-hydrated/</a>. See also <a href="http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-5.html" target="_blank">http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-5.html</a> but I would avoid adding sugar.</p>
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<p>So you will simply need more yeast if you pitch dry. The problem is rehydrating adds another process step and must be done properly, warmer than ferment temp (I generally aim for 25-27C), but then cooled to hit around wort temp (20C). I just do this in the sink, boiling the water first. </p>
<p>The 5g packs are not enough to start with, let alone old, stored at room temperature with the cans. A fresh 11.5g pack of US-05, on the other hand, is going to have enough cells to handle being pitched dry into a typical 1045 OG kit brew. </p> - DON’T PITCH DRY YEA…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2015-04-27:1500433:Comment:2186402015-04-27T06:26:13.610ZMark Collinshttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/MarkCollins
<p><span>- </span><strong>DON’T PITCH DRY YEAST STRAIGHT INTO THE FERMENTER! </strong><span> Pitching dry kills about half of your yeast cells. If you’re only using a 5 gram kit yeast pack this means you will underpitch and the yeast will struggle to start fermenting quickly = possible infection, stuck fermentation and bad beer. Always rehydrate your yeast 20 mins before pitching in boiled, cooled water (20-30C – cool in the sink). This is not </span><em>as</em><span> essential if you…</span></p>
<p><span>- </span><strong>DON’T PITCH DRY YEAST STRAIGHT INTO THE FERMENTER! </strong><span> Pitching dry kills about half of your yeast cells. If you’re only using a 5 gram kit yeast pack this means you will underpitch and the yeast will struggle to start fermenting quickly = possible infection, stuck fermentation and bad beer. Always rehydrate your yeast 20 mins before pitching in boiled, cooled water (20-30C – cool in the sink). This is not </span><em>as</em><span> essential if you buy 11.5g Fermentis yeast packs separately, but still very worthwhile. Healthy yeast = better beer.</span></p>
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<p><span>Could someone please explain this is simple terms.</span></p> bumptag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2014-01-02:1500433:Comment:1955662014-01-02T23:40:48.576ZRalphhttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Ralph792
<p>bump</p>
<p>bump</p> Cheers man, thanks for sugges…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2013-11-06:1500433:Comment:1914762013-11-06T12:39:58.272ZMikehttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Mike317
<p>Cheers man, thanks for suggesting to me to post this here, pity I can't edit the original post now! The current version is on the Chch Homebrew Club page: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/494714937209424/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/groups/494714937209424/</a> ...I've made lots of small tweaks but here are some of the recent additions.</p>
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<p>Some people have found 2x 1.7kg lager kits a little bitter for their tastes, I find when dryhopped with…</p>
<p>Cheers man, thanks for suggesting to me to post this here, pity I can't edit the original post now! The current version is on the Chch Homebrew Club page: <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/494714937209424/" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/groups/494714937209424/</a> ...I've made lots of small tweaks but here are some of the recent additions.</p>
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<p>Some people have found 2x 1.7kg lager kits a little bitter for their tastes, I find when dryhopped with 80g or so of US style hops they do an APA quite nicely. But if you don't want to use dry hops and are after a more malty beer you might be better off with something like a Nut brown ale kit and a can of light malt extract...in this case I would DEFINITELY recommend buying refrigerated dry yeast (Preferably US-05 - or MJ M44 West Coast - as they are very clean fermenting. You can use S-04 if you like for a more 'british' taste but I have found it can ferment too fast and throw off a lot of esters).</p>
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<p><strong>AVOID LAGER AND CERVESA KITS IF YOU MUST USE SUGAR/DEXTROSE!</strong> As a general rule, the lighter the beer, the harder it is to hide mistakes in the brewing process. Lager kits (think Coopers/Black Rock Lager) have nothing much in the way of flavour (like most commercial lagers!) and even when brewed well with dextrose can come out thin. Regardless of your personal drinking habits, you are better to go for fuller flavour kits: amber, brown, real and dark ales, porters, stouts and IPAs, with a can of extract (or a lager kit if total IBUs are less than 35). Conversely, 2x lager kits at 20L can make an excellent 5% session APA base if dryhopped with about 80gs of cascade or similar...concentration makes a difference! (JR - Realbeer): When it comes to kits fresh is best. Get them as new as possible and if it is past its use by date then use it for making starters or throw it away.</p>
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<p><strong>Oli Drake:</strong> Open your hops and sniff - if mostly cardboard, old cheese and sweet lawn clippings they're probably no good. Get them from a homebrew supplier who refrigerates them. Sniff the yeast packet, if it has a sharp smell of old marmite, and this smell persists after rehydration, maybe decide not to pitch this nastiness into the beer. My advice to kit brewers is smell and taste everything you can, if in doubt, buy fresh yeast/hops from a good home brew shop! (One that stores yeast and hops in the fridge/freezer). Unfortunately there's not much you can do if the malt extract is oxidised...Not sure how they can justify the BBE date, the only way in my mind that this product would still be at it's best is if you kept the whole kit close to zero degrees, even then the yeast would have pretty low viability....</p>
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<p><strong>Kit stats from Mangrove Jacks - stats are for 1 kit in 23L. 10g yeast pack per kit, Mangrove Jacks Craft Series strains - catered to style.</strong></p>
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<p>Craft Series brewery pouches (the big ones, 2.2 kg - these are based on added dextrose/brew enhancer)</p>
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<p>English Session Ale - IBU 18-24/Colour: Chestnut Brown/ABV 3.6% - Newcastle Dark Ale yeast 10g</p>
<p>India Pale Ale - IBU 35-45/Colour: Golden/ABV 4.7% - British Ale yeast 10g</p>
<p>Irish Stout - IBU 40-50/Colour: Black/ABV 4.9% - British Ale yeast 10g</p>
<p>London Bitter - IBU 28-36/Colour: Orange Brown/ABV 4.2% - Burton Union yeast 10g</p>
<p>Nut Brown Ale - IBU 26-34/Colour: Mahogany/ABV 4.1% - Newcastle Dark Ale yeast 10g</p>
<p>Pilsner - IBU 28-36/Colour: Golden/ABV 4.7% - Workhorse yeast 10g</p>
<p>Premium Lager - IBU 18-24/Colour: Pale Gold/ABV 4.4% - Workhorse yeast 10g</p>
<p>Bavarian Wheat - IBU 12-18/Colour: Hazy Gold/ABV 4.7% - Bavarian Wheat yeast 10g</p>
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<p><strong>Kit stats from Brewtec - One 1.5kg kit with dextrose in 23L vs two kits in 23L (Measure as at 5 Brix/1.020 OG per kit, actual IBUs in doubled kits will be less). 5g yeast pack per kit. Not recommended due to smaller size.</strong></p>
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<p>Brewtec Lager IBU 16/max SRM 4</p>
<p>Brewtec Premium Draught IBU 21/SRM 12.5</p>
<p>Brewtec Brown Drought IBU 10/SRM 9</p>
<p>Brewtec Classic Dark Ale IBU 20/SRM 20</p> Random post to bring this top…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2013-11-06:1500433:Comment:1914742013-11-06T09:15:29.250ZRalphhttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Ralph792
<p>Random post to bring this topic back to the top of the forum...</p>
<p>Random post to bring this topic back to the top of the forum...</p> Just a few stats re: doing do…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2013-08-29:1500433:Comment:1876042013-08-29T14:51:37.513ZMikehttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Mike317
<p>Just a few stats re: doing double kit batches, in most cases the bitterness is not over the top, as can be seen by the numbers. However Mangrove jacks kits are designed to be quite flavourful, so it is best to just use a can of light malt extract ($15) when brewing these. </p>
<p><span style="font-size: 13px;">I also did a few experiments, including a kit Epic Pale ale with 2x Lion Lagers, 450g of light crystal and the Hop schedule from the CYBI episode here:…</span></p>
<p>Just a few stats re: doing double kit batches, in most cases the bitterness is not over the top, as can be seen by the numbers. However Mangrove jacks kits are designed to be quite flavourful, so it is best to just use a can of light malt extract ($15) when brewing these. </p>
<p><span style="font-size: 13px;">I also did a few experiments, including a kit Epic Pale ale with 2x Lion Lagers, 450g of light crystal and the Hop schedule from the CYBI episode here:</span> <a href="http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/can-you-brew-recipe-epic-pale-ale-194085/" style="font-size: 13px;">http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/can-you-brew-recipe-epic-pale-ale-194085/</a><span style="font-size: 13px;"> Brewtoad recipe here: </span><a href="http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/easy-epic-pale-ale-kit-beer-cheapo-version-read-instruction-below" style="font-size: 13px;">http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/easy-epic-pale-ale-kit-beer-cheapo-version-read-instruction-below</a><span style="font-size: 13px;"> I've brewed and tasted EPA clones several times, extract and all grain, and can honestly say this one was one of the nicest. Needs a bit more OG but dropped volume to 20-21L brings it in line.</span></p>
<p>Here are the actual stats of the kits from the manufacturers. </p>
<p><strong>Kit stats from Lion</strong> - One kit with dextrose in 23L vs estimated two kits in 23L (actual IBUs in doubled kits will be less due to more malt = higher final gravity, +/- 1.012 vs 1.008 kit +dextrose).</p>
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<p>Lion Lager – IBU 16/SRM 3 <em>2x Lager= IBU 32/SRM 6 - (NZPA/APA/Pilsner range)</em></p>
<p>Lion Draught – IBU 17/SRM <em>6.5 2x Draught= IBU 17/SRM 13 (Amber range)</em></p>
<p>Lion Dark – IBU 16/SRM 25 <em>With lager kit= IBU 32/SRM 27</em></p>
<p>Lion Real Ale – IBU 21/SRM 12.5 <em>With lager kit= IBU 37/SRM 15.5 (ESB range)</em></p>
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<p><strong>Kit stats from Coopers</strong> - One kit with dextrose in 23L vs two kits in 23L (actual IBUs in doubled kits will be less).</p>
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<p>Coopers Lager - IBU 17-21/SRM 2.5 <em>2x each IBU 17-21/SRM 5</em></p>
<p>Coopers Draught - IBU - 18-23/SRM 3.6 <em>2x each IBU 36-46/SRM 7.2</em></p>
<p>Coopers Real Ale - IBU 23-30/SRM 6.4</p>
<p>Coopers Bitter - IBU 25-33.70/SRM 11</p>
<p>Coopers Dark Ale - IBU 27-32/SRM 18</p>
<p>Coopers Stout - IBU 32-38/SRM 50</p>
<p>Coopers Mexican Cerveza IBU 15-16 SRM 2</p>
<p>Coopers Australian Pale IBU 17-19 SRM 4 </p> Hutch: Metabisulphite is actu…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2013-03-17:1500433:Comment:1739142013-03-17T10:13:04.161ZMikehttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Mike317
<p>Hutch: Metabisulphite is actually a pretty poor anti-microbial agent, and needs to dry completely for the sulphur dioxide to work. It's also pretty nasty in dried form compared to percarbonate, starsan and iodophor (obviously liquids, but nowhere near as nasty as metabisulphite, which can cause problems for asthmatics and will blow your head off if you sniff it). Therefore I'd recommend iodophor and star-san...or on the cheap/newbie styles the two step technique mentioned above - overnight…</p>
<p>Hutch: Metabisulphite is actually a pretty poor anti-microbial agent, and needs to dry completely for the sulphur dioxide to work. It's also pretty nasty in dried form compared to percarbonate, starsan and iodophor (obviously liquids, but nowhere near as nasty as metabisulphite, which can cause problems for asthmatics and will blow your head off if you sniff it). Therefore I'd recommend iodophor and star-san...or on the cheap/newbie styles the two step technique mentioned above - overnight percarbonate soak, then metabisulphite. Of course, as Ralph says the two-step is still necessary with the better sanitisers.</p> Homebrad napisan (or even the…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2013-03-17:1500433:Comment:1742292013-03-17T03:50:57.003ZRalphhttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Ralph792
<p>Homebrad napisan (or even the real thing) is more like 25% Sod. Percarbonate and no where near 100%. The other 75% is a mix of a number of things... I sure as shit would be rinsing my gear after using any napisan type mix in it!!</p>
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<p>Pure Sodium Percarbonate I would be a lot less worried about rinsing.</p>
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<p>As for dose rates I think it depends on how much "organic soiling" there is. If you are looking to sterilise you first have to get rid of the organic bits. Basically…</p>
<p>Homebrad napisan (or even the real thing) is more like 25% Sod. Percarbonate and no where near 100%. The other 75% is a mix of a number of things... I sure as shit would be rinsing my gear after using any napisan type mix in it!!</p>
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<p>Pure Sodium Percarbonate I would be a lot less worried about rinsing.</p>
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<p>As for dose rates I think it depends on how much "organic soiling" there is. If you are looking to sterilise you first have to get rid of the organic bits. Basically most sterilisers work by killing the organic stuff, so if there are bits of stuck malt, yeast or hops the sanitiser will go to town on this bit. If there is more organics than sanitiser in solution you will not get your container sterile. This is why most people recommend a wash with something that will remove the organic dirt and then a sanitising step. I think even Sod Percarb will run out of effectiveness is there is too much soiling as it will use up all the hydrogen peroxide in solution...</p>
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<p>So. Wash with something effective, then sterilise with something effective is the golden way to do it.</p> I couldn't find any data lowe…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2013-03-17:1500433:Comment:1742192013-03-17T00:16:30.065ZHutchhttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Hutch
<p>I couldn't find any data lower than a 1% solution, but all the studies are from the healthcare sector, where the standards are a bit higher than ours... If you're buying plain unscented nappy sanitiser (effectively 100% Sodium Percarbonate), sterilising with 50g/L still works out pretty cheap, not as cheap as things like chlorine bleach, but you don't have to worry about rinsing. Very low concentrations of Hydrogen Peroxide does pretty much nothing to yeast and Sodium Carbonate will affect…</p>
<p>I couldn't find any data lower than a 1% solution, but all the studies are from the healthcare sector, where the standards are a bit higher than ours... If you're buying plain unscented nappy sanitiser (effectively 100% Sodium Percarbonate), sterilising with 50g/L still works out pretty cheap, not as cheap as things like chlorine bleach, but you don't have to worry about rinsing. Very low concentrations of Hydrogen Peroxide does pretty much nothing to yeast and Sodium Carbonate will affect wort Ph, but so little should be present it shouldn't make a difference. However things like Sodium Metabisulphate and Peracetic Acid are much more effective no-rinse santisers.</p> Quicker yes...straightforward…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2013-03-16:1500433:Comment:1740962013-03-16T13:57:57.606ZMikehttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Mike317
<p>Quicker yes...straightforward no. A immersion chiller is much easier and cheaper to build, and if you immerse the kettle in a bucket of cold water as well (which can also be circulating/iced) they are pretty efficient if you have enough coils. Many people don't use enough copper in too tight (small circumference) a coil though, the more of the copper in the wort at your standard brew volume the better. My mate Douglas uses an immersion chiller and a simple pump to circulate the hot wort, and…</p>
<p>Quicker yes...straightforward no. A immersion chiller is much easier and cheaper to build, and if you immerse the kettle in a bucket of cold water as well (which can also be circulating/iced) they are pretty efficient if you have enough coils. Many people don't use enough copper in too tight (small circumference) a coil though, the more of the copper in the wort at your standard brew volume the better. My mate Douglas uses an immersion chiller and a simple pump to circulate the hot wort, and gets good cooling efficiency, and I use the aforementioned immersion + bucket technique. Then again, if you're a dab hand with pipes etc and don't mind putting a bit of work in, that counterflow chiller would be ideal, particularly for large batches (+40L) where the efficiency of the immersion chiller drops somewhat. Just make sure it sanitised, you would want to run boiling wort through it and back into the fermenter for a bit i'd say. </p>