Kiwis figure beer-food match? Go figure. - RealBeer.co.nz2024-03-29T14:13:24Zhttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/forum/topics/1500433:Topic:1701?commentId=1500433%3AComment%3A2921&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noQuote:
"Its main competitors…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2008-01-15:1500433:Comment:29212008-01-15T18:45:26.840ZBarryhttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Barry
Quote:<br />
"Its main competitors in the New Zealand beer markets are Lion Nathan and Dominion Breweries."<br />
<br />
I think that probably sums it up.
Quote:<br />
"Its main competitors in the New Zealand beer markets are Lion Nathan and Dominion Breweries."<br />
<br />
I think that probably sums it up. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sec…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2008-01-15:1500433:Comment:29012008-01-15T06:16:10.516ZHoracehttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Horace
<a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10486814&ref=emailfriend">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10486814&ref=emailfriend</a><br />
<br />
Just out of interest where does this brewery and the beers it produces fit into the grand scheme of things. I have only a vague recollection of trying any Good Bastards.
<a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10486814&ref=emailfriend">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10486814&ref=emailfriend</a><br />
<br />
Just out of interest where does this brewery and the beers it produces fit into the grand scheme of things. I have only a vague recollection of trying any Good Bastards. While I have to agree that Ki…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2008-01-15:1500433:Comment:28682008-01-15T00:50:39.674ZGreig McGillhttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/GreigMcGill
While I have to agree that Kiwis do generally exhibit the sheep mentality, I've had different and more heartening experiences. I regularly turn up to parties with a selection of good flavoursome beers, and ensure that I have enough spare for friends to try. Response is never negative. There's always one or two who won't like one or other of the beers but almost without fail the response is "wow, beer can taste like this???" - it's been great. People can change, and will, as long as it's their…
While I have to agree that Kiwis do generally exhibit the sheep mentality, I've had different and more heartening experiences. I regularly turn up to parties with a selection of good flavoursome beers, and ensure that I have enough spare for friends to try. Response is never negative. There's always one or two who won't like one or other of the beers but almost without fail the response is "wow, beer can taste like this???" - it's been great. People can change, and will, as long as it's their choice, and they don't feel railroaded.<br />
<br />
Advertising. Yeswell. I am an extreme cynic when it comes to marketing. In my opinion, it perverts the natural order of the free market, by confusing the message passing between consumer and producer, leading to the biggest marketing budget dominating instead of the best product. Frustrating as all hell, but there's nothing I can do about it beyond continuing to educate anyone keen to listen. Yes, that does make me boring at parties, but you're almost guaranteed to get a free beer! ;)<br />
<br />
Suggestion: Next time, start with Pilsner Urquell. It's still a familiar lager, but wow, what a lager it is. If they can hack the firm bitterness present there, they will be ready for an Epic experience. If not, they probably don't really like beer anyway, so leave them with their dirty brown water. The marketer has been more in…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2008-01-15:1500433:Comment:28662008-01-15T00:35:40.510ZBarryhttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Barry
The marketer has been more influential than the brewer for 40 years. I'd like to think that in this age of awareness it's swinging back to some extent. New Zealand is slow on the uptake though, we are truly a nation of sheep. Apathetic, reserved, strong but silent, unwilling to be unique and stick your head up for fear of having it chopped off.<br />
<br />
I can seek out and find good beer (and I do) but for everyday drinkers I pretty much _have_ to brew my own. It would be far too expensive to keep me in…
The marketer has been more influential than the brewer for 40 years. I'd like to think that in this age of awareness it's swinging back to some extent. New Zealand is slow on the uptake though, we are truly a nation of sheep. Apathetic, reserved, strong but silent, unwilling to be unique and stick your head up for fear of having it chopped off.<br />
<br />
I can seek out and find good beer (and I do) but for everyday drinkers I pretty much _have_ to brew my own. It would be far too expensive to keep me in a daily pint if I didn't. It'd be great if even 50% of pubs in this country had one or two decent 4%-ish session ales on tap - kegged would be fine as long as it's served not too cold, not too fizzy and I can taste malt and hops. 99.9% of all drinking establishments and booze outlets are void of such an every day beer at any price. Of course I'm happier with a 6pack of Epic than an 18pack of Tui and I choose Epic every time, but what about when I want more than 6? It doesn't happen often but it does happen, especially when I want my guests to try one.<br />
<br />
Worth noting too that branding doesn't buy new drinkers, it merely sways them from one brand to another. Look at Tui, it's screaming rise in the north half of the North Island has been almost entirely at the expense of Lion Red. Tui have spent a fortune, Lion Red has languished with LN not spending a penny. That's the hard part, to get the punter to drink Epic you have to steer them away from something else that has the marketing budget the size of Graeme Hart's real estate portfolio. Not an easy thing to do. That's where the battle of the supermarket shelves is waged, not in the relatively few educated people sharing their quality beer with friends and neighbors, but with massive reprehensible above-the-line spend, begetting mistruths and outright lies.<br />
<br />
That said, I'm with you all the way Luke, I'll be singing the praises of Epic until there's no more breath in my lungs. Sure I don't mind them drinki…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2008-01-15:1500433:Comment:28612008-01-15T00:05:27.557ZBambulehttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Bambule
Sure I don't mind them drinking it, as the saying goes I disagree with you but I defend to the death your right to do it. I was being a bit selfish rather then trying to educate, but I was at least hoping for some adventure, but only received caution and cynacism (bloody aussie beer!). I didn't wan't to push it too hard as I'd only look like the social psychopath. However, sometimes I wish that the mainstream beer baseline was raised a little bit, at least produce something unadulterated and…
Sure I don't mind them drinking it, as the saying goes I disagree with you but I defend to the death your right to do it. I was being a bit selfish rather then trying to educate, but I was at least hoping for some adventure, but only received caution and cynacism (bloody aussie beer!). I didn't wan't to push it too hard as I'd only look like the social psychopath. However, sometimes I wish that the mainstream beer baseline was raised a little bit, at least produce something unadulterated and with some sympathy for the ingredients, and I'm not talking about steinlager pure. From realising the quality of the results from a simple homebrew set up it should be made criminal to produce something like Tui and call it beer! A bit off topic anyway. I suppose they are merely making what the mainstream demand, or at the very least are able to force down. Indeed the marketer is becoming more influential then the brewer....shame. "For $18 you can get six Epic…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2008-01-14:1500433:Comment:28412008-01-14T23:33:28.807ZHoracehttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Horace
"For $18 you can get six Epic Pale Ale or 18 Tui, yet the Epic equivalent still has five times as much hop. And what pleasure is there in drinking 18 Tui in an evening?"<br />
<br />
For the first 12 not much but after that............<br />
<br />
I tend to agree with Barry, particularly flavoursome. With some foods that accentuate the bitterness, I could see how some might prefer a sweet bland brown water to an Epic. The idea of some thing being alive in your beverage might also be a little disconcerting for the…
"For $18 you can get six Epic Pale Ale or 18 Tui, yet the Epic equivalent still has five times as much hop. And what pleasure is there in drinking 18 Tui in an evening?"<br />
<br />
For the first 12 not much but after that............<br />
<br />
I tend to agree with Barry, particularly flavoursome. With some foods that accentuate the bitterness, I could see how some might prefer a sweet bland brown water to an Epic. The idea of some thing being alive in your beverage might also be a little disconcerting for the average Mr or Mrs drinker.<br />
<br />
At times when I've been drinking with friends at pubs most are eager to try some thing a little out of the ordinary (through a little provocation mostly), after the first one though they often revert back to their "Premium lager", rather than trying something else. Its a hard road finding the perfect drinking companion.<br />
<br />
I guess mainstream is "mainstream" for a reason, it's what people seem to like. Bland things seem to appeal to more people. I think part of the reason I like non-mainstream beer (and perhaps some other people do too), is that it is a bit out there and different. For some the fear of the unknown will always put them off, and beer can be pretty scary. :)<br />
<br />
<br />
With mega swill the customer also knows what they are getting, it's always the same. With smaller batches there is always going to be quite a large amount of variability that is acceptable in the wine industry but not so with beer.<br />
<br />
My beer sampled by colleagues gets rave reviews most of the time, as it's often easier to hand out a complement than criticism (good or bad, I've realised not everyone is a BJCP judge). I'm fairly certain that most would rather drink Heineken given the choice.<br />
<br />
It's only beer and beer is meant to be enjoyed. If you enjoy drinking sweet bland brown water then drink it. These consumers get what they…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2008-01-14:1500433:Comment:28212008-01-14T23:01:35.134Znzbrewerhttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/nzbrewer
These consumers get what they pay for generally. (not much) Most do use the advertising to make their decisions about brand, they don't have the capacity to make and informed or educated decision for them selves. Buying beer for the masses is the same as buying a car, or whiteware or any other commodity they buy. They don't deserve to be able to drink beers such as Epic.
These consumers get what they pay for generally. (not much) Most do use the advertising to make their decisions about brand, they don't have the capacity to make and informed or educated decision for them selves. Buying beer for the masses is the same as buying a car, or whiteware or any other commodity they buy. They don't deserve to be able to drink beers such as Epic. All that hop resin leaving a…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2008-01-14:1500433:Comment:28012008-01-14T21:25:05.401ZBarryhttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Barry
All that hop resin leaving a bitter taste in your mouth Luke?<br />
<br />
I still doubt it's a taste thing. I think it's a brand thing. There are a LOT of mainstream beer drinkers who firmly believe that Heineken is top notch beer. That's the impression the ads leave you with. The best bars stock it. It costs more at the supermarket. It's "European". They sponsor major global events.<br />
<br />
Most people I've tried to inform otherwise are a damn hard sell, the ad agencies spin a much better yarn than me - well to…
All that hop resin leaving a bitter taste in your mouth Luke?<br />
<br />
I still doubt it's a taste thing. I think it's a brand thing. There are a LOT of mainstream beer drinkers who firmly believe that Heineken is top notch beer. That's the impression the ads leave you with. The best bars stock it. It costs more at the supermarket. It's "European". They sponsor major global events.<br />
<br />
Most people I've tried to inform otherwise are a damn hard sell, the ad agencies spin a much better yarn than me - well to be fair they spend more money on it. And even if they are agreeable about what better beer is, next time they go beer shopping (at the supermarket mainly, lets be honest) they aren't going to be able to put their new learnings into practice are they.<br />
To get them to believe in better beer to the point of driving many kilometers for smaller quantities of beer that costs significantly more (even if the beer really is great) is a huge ask. This I would say is a very ty…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2008-01-14:1500433:Comment:27812008-01-14T20:11:09.571Znzbrewerhttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/nzbrewer
This I would say is a very typical response of the "great unwashed" in New Zealand. There seems to be a large percentage of the population unwilling to engage their brain (if they do indeed have one) to actually experience flavour or even any sensory experience in their lives.<br />
<br />
I put it down to the legacy of the early settlers and the early migrants that came to New Zealand. There is still a sense of scarcity amongst mainstream NZ and an unwillingness to pay for quality. (and they wonder why…
This I would say is a very typical response of the "great unwashed" in New Zealand. There seems to be a large percentage of the population unwilling to engage their brain (if they do indeed have one) to actually experience flavour or even any sensory experience in their lives.<br />
<br />
I put it down to the legacy of the early settlers and the early migrants that came to New Zealand. There is still a sense of scarcity amongst mainstream NZ and an unwillingness to pay for quality. (and they wonder why they don't get paid as much as if they lived in Australia.)<br />
<br />
It is all about getting as much as you can for as little as possible. This is reinforced by the large brewers who are by the way run by these same people, and whose shareholders are these same people. Until these people mature, which is unlikely to happen in a generation, and actually realize that by paying more, and enjoying what you have, you generally consume less.<br />
<br />
For $18 you can get six Epic Pale Ale or 18 Tui, yet the Epic equivalent still has five times as much hop. And what pleasure is there in drinking 18 Tui in an evening?<br />
<br />
Just take heart that there are a significant number of consumers out there that are purchasing "good beer".<br />
<br />
What I say to these people is "it isn't about the beer, it is about them." Yeah I'd say it is more chall…tag:www.forum.realbeer.co.nz,2008-01-14:1500433:Comment:27612008-01-14T19:37:16.695ZBarryhttp://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/profile/Barry
Yeah I'd say it is more challenging, you also chose two particularly flavoursome and bitter beers. Great choices too, I would've thought with the right introduction punters would've really enjoyed them. Did you attempt to educate, say that this is what all beer would taste like if it weren't brewed by accountants, that the presence of yeast is an indicator of a natural and non-filtered product, that hops are all the rage on the craft scene? Or was it a lost cause... When I bring homebrew into…
Yeah I'd say it is more challenging, you also chose two particularly flavoursome and bitter beers. Great choices too, I would've thought with the right introduction punters would've really enjoyed them. Did you attempt to educate, say that this is what all beer would taste like if it weren't brewed by accountants, that the presence of yeast is an indicator of a natural and non-filtered product, that hops are all the rage on the craft scene? Or was it a lost cause... When I bring homebrew into work I pass around an email attempting to set my co-workers expectation on what style of beer it is and what flavours it's going to have. For those who bother to read it, it seems to work.<br />
<br />
Perhaps more challenging is the will to self educate. People seem more than happy to do it with wine - research, read, search shelves for the right bottle, the right vintage. No-one gives a crap about beer to that extent. Why? It's cool to be knowledgable about the tastes and differences of wine. It's cool to merely be seen to be drinking the "premium" beer brands. Taste counts for nothing, brand image is everything. God it's so boring.